Sounds good. 4x150W will blow you away...

Can you tell us the shutter speed you are using?
To really see the details without blurring, a relative short shutter-time is necessary (<=500 MICROseconds).

sounds interesting. It is hard to imagine to have a 100W LED light at that price.
An appropriate quality LED-light of 50W, having a flicker-index of 0,01 I didn't found below 90 Euro. At 200fps you still can see some flickering. At 100fps it is OK.
Absolutely flicker free is the Aputure Amaran HR672S, 25°, about 4600 Lumen, but it costs about 250 Euro.

It would be interesting to know, at which fps-rate and shutter-speed you test these lights.
A simple test would be to use the handy in slow motion recording mode. Most (at least the iPhone) have a slow motion record at 120fps and 240fps to make a quick check.

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(36 replies, posted in General)

Hi,
some infos may help:
Issues 1:
Blurring is related to the shutter speed, not the frame rate. Unfortunately, controlling the shutter speed may be difficult in USB2-cameras. Maybe, setting a fixed framerate AND shutter speed in the firmware may help. However, I haven't seen a program that may modify the firmware of the OV2710 cameras

Issues 2:
You may try even to use 4 instances of Kinovea if 2 cameras are in use. 1 instance for each camera, 1 instance for each replay. I found, that this helps in synchronizing multiple videos.

If 1 video plays "faster", mostly it is due to dropped frames during recording that may have several reasons:
1. if more than 1 camera is connected to the same USB-port, they may interfere (bandwidth too low)
2. one instance of recording Kinovea needs about 35% CPU-Load if an i5/9600k processor is used. Using a slower processor, two instances may increase the CPU-Load over 100%, if windows background-processes are running. Check the CPU-load in the task-manager to be in a "safe" area. I found interferences if the total CPU-load goes > 80% (Probably due to some background-processes, especially if windows internally writes to the SSD).
3. Try to use a different SSD to store the videos

Issue 3:
if 1 kinovea instance is used for each replay, looking on different (!) directories, it works pretty stable to me.

Hi Joan,
did a lot of testing. It really is a concern if going > 100fps.
At 100fps, flickering is not a problem as far as I have seen. Also if "standard" lighting/LEDs are used.
Interestingly, NOT special LEDs are rather worth compared to regular lighting due to the fast reaction in relation to the changing current.

If LED light is selected, the flicker-index should be below 0,05 (or lower !). But also using these lights, some flickering is visible at fps above 150 fps.
The reduced flickering at 100fps cannot be found any more if fps is > 150fps. At 200fps, there seems to be now beneficial effect.
Of course, it heavily depends on the shutter speed. If shutter speed is below 1000 microseconds, flickering becomes evident. Furthermore, under not professional conditions (as my Garage - SIM smile ) if Color video is used, the image quality becomes worth. So I actually exclusively use MONO8 to speed up data transfer and to get the most light to the video.

One camera I use is an IDS 3140 at about 1200x500 pixels using 300fps (Mono of course). shutter speed 200 - 500 microseconds. It comes from the top and is focussed on the golf ball at an object frame of about 1x0,5m. To reduce the flickering I use an AMARAN Spot-LED that is ABSOLUTELY flicker-free. That works pretty good.

A further, rather simple effect I have seen is, that it is important, not to have reflecting objects (also the ground can be reflecting). That increases visible flickering.

A further test I made is to use three-phase current that I furtunately have at my Golf-simulator-room. There are 3 LEDs connected to each phase with the idea, to reduce flickering. However, at 200fps there still is some flickering also when using LEDs having a flicker-index below 0,01.

Hi obevz
Basler has/will release in August a very interesting Camera:
The DART daA1920-160um(S-Mount), 1/2,3“, IMX392
It allows all features of a professional camera to set, using the Pylon-interface to an affordable price of 239,- Euro (in Europe).

Especially when using close distance from camera to object (F < 3,5mm), the S-lenses are pretty cheap. Using a 2,8 - 2,9mm lens at 1,7m can replay a golfer at about full view.
They cost about 15-100 Euro. Lens selection to me is not a simple task. Focussing the lens in the camera can also be a demanding procedure. However, if you have to go  below 4mm lenses due to the small distance, it is the best solution.

If lighting is a concern, or shutter speed should be reduced below 1000 microseconds, binning is a good option to reduce the otherwise demanding lighting conditions. Binning in general reduces the resolution to 1/2. So using this camera, a resolution of 960 x 600 pixels can be used at about 150fps and will give an appropriate view of a golf-swing.
Be aware, that in general, only MONO-cameras have the option of binning !

To check, you can use the following link of the Lens selector:
https://www.baslerweb.com/de/produkte/t … el=m-77312


Insert the distance to the object (working distance 1700mm) and the height ( object height 2500mm), it calculates a lens of F=2,85mm. So using the 2,8mm lens, the golfswing should be visible in total. (I personally use a lens 2,9mm for down the line-view at 800x1000 pixels and a distance of 1,8m and it works fine).


The other solution would be, to use much more expensive cameras having a chip that is equal or above 2/3 inch. ( ACA 1920-150um 2/3“). However, you would need a nearly 4mm lens to get the same object-frame dimensions. The price of these lenses is pretty high and it is not easy to find one at 4mm that has an aperture below F1.8 that would be favorable to record at low shutter speed < 1000 microseconds.

Hi,
using the Basler lens selector you can choose your camera and lens and the distance camera-to-object to see the dimension of the frame the camera can record. Your pixel size of the sensor is 6,9 micrometer, so 5MB resolution should be enough. Open the aperture fully to 1,8.
If the recording-window is too small in dimension, you would have to go below 4mm focal length. However, most C-mount lenses do not go below 3,5mm. To go further down to about 2,8-2,9mm (I use it for down-the-line recording from a distance of 1,9m) you would have to use S-mount lenses.
However, the internal color-adapter of the camera might have to be removed to bring the lens close enough to the sensor. You should check with Basler to get it work it necessary.
To my (painful) experience, selecting the right lens is not as easy as I thought at the beginning. So it would be good to be sure to get it returned if it doesn't work as expected.
Regarding light, 250W LED should work. Start at 100fps framerate and 1000microsecond shutter speed. To get the image (the club) completely freezed you would have to go down to 200microseconds (not milliseconds!). However, going below 1000microseconds and over 100fps, the lightning source should have a near zero flicker index, otherwise the video flickers tremendously.

Did you use a "real" USB 3.0 port ? You mentioned exclusively USB 2.0
The Basler camera needs a  USB 3.0 or upward port to work.
Using Pylong you mention to see an "image". Do you also see a "video" after recording.
If:
- your PC-system contains a USB 3.0 - port (or upward)
- Pylon 6.0 is correctly installed including the USB 3.0 - drivers
- Kinovea 0.9.3 is correctly installed
everything should work.
To be sure that the correct Kinovea is called, try to install the ZIP-Version in a separate directory. I exclusively use it this way to have multiple version of Kinovea to run parallel (Testing new versions).
Call Pylon - software, check USB-Port-performance using the included option.
Record a Video (Pylon in general uses AVI-format). If you would like to record MP4, a SEPARATE Installation has to be done by downloading the MP4-extension from the Basler site. However, if high speed video should be recorded, it is better to use AVI or MKV-format.

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(42 replies, posted in General)

most of the handy-cameras recorded videos did NOT use a constant framerate. Therefore, it may be favorable
to convert the video to a constant framerate. Furthermore it may help to convert the video to "mjpeg" to store a full frame to every frame. MP4 is the container but does not control the content of the video. Be aware of creating a hugh file using the mjpeg-options.

using FFmpeg the option -c:v mjpeg creates a video that contains a full frame for EVERY frame, not only the difference from one frame to the other. This type of video can be read in Kinovea and it is possible to scroll back and forth from one frame to the other. Furthermore, you could experiment of using a constant framerate for the output-video using the -r option. The quality is controlled by -q:v 2 (highest quality, 23 lowest).

Example
ffmpeg -i input.mov -c:v mjpeg -q:v 3 -r 30 output.mp4

Joan is absolutely right. Windows uses the system-drive to do some internal stuff at given time, mostly during video recoding smile
In the new Kinovea version there is a recording mode "retroactive". As far as I understand, recording first goes to the memory and thereafter to the disk.

Using a dedicated, fast SSD for video recording at such high speed will help. If the motherboard supports it, a NVMe M.2 drive works best. Writing speeds of SSD-harddisks depending on the available interface:
SATA (max 500MB/s) and PCIe 2.0 (>800MB/s), M.2 (1000-2000 MB/s)
I'm actually using i.e. a 1000x1000 MONO-video at 200fps, uncompressed MKV, 2,5 seconds: 700MB file size !
So using color video recording at high speed really is a challenge for your system.

Hi,
I'm glad to see that others are also using Basler-cameras. So far, my experience is very well with them. In general, the interface is very stable.

The problem definitively is the bandwidth, it is too high and over the limit. I would suggest, that using your resolution in color, about 40fps would be the maximum any system can transfer.

My camera is a MONO 1,4MB (1440x1080 pixel, 220fps, Basler ace acA1440-220uc). Trying to use the maximal setting with this camera, the limit already is reached.

Recommondation:
- First check your hardware configuration using the BANDWIDTH-Manager in the pylon interface (under Tools). Look on the maximal bandwidth your system can deliver.
Play with the parameters of the camera and check out, what will be the maximal setting you could use on YOUR actual system. Then, go down a little bit to take the conversion inside Kinovea into account.

- Start using MONO8, Resolution 800x600, 100fps. The bandwidth will be about 100MB/s and should run smoothly.
Then go up with the resolution and the fps and see, what the Pylon-program will show. To my experience, the bandwidth should be below 300MB/s to work stable (having a dedicated USB3.0 interface).
If you use color (PixelFormat RGB8) acquisition, the transfer-rate will increase by the factor of 3 !

- Try out BINNING, if available in the color version. It reduces the resolution by 2 and gives you a much brighter image at the same lighting.

- regarding hardware: it is important to have at least one dedicated USB3.0 port available where no other devices are connected. I'm using a separate PCI-card with 2 INDEPENDENT USB 3.1 V2  ports and the USB 3.1 -port of the motherboard.

- If you have only 1 camera connected, your hardware should be sufficient. Check it out looking at the CPU-Load. Open Task-Manager, click on "more details" and you can see the amount of CPU-load of all your tasks.

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(36 replies, posted in General)

Hi Inorkuo,
to reduce load you could try several things.
First, reduce the display fps in the settings down to i.e. 1fps. That will give you some percent.

Try to use 2 (TWO) Kinovea instances, each using 1 camera for video acquisition. Under some circumstances I found that using two times 1 camera exclusively to 1 Kinovea has a lower CPU-load than 2  cameras shared to 1 Kinovea.

Regarding the speed it maybe a misbehavior of 2 cameras in 1 Kinovea. When using 1 camera/1kinovea the videos are nicely synchronized.
Using 2 Kinovea for acquisition, also if different cameras are used the new settings of Threshold/Replace can be "misused" to correct individual behavior of each camera. I.e. if acquisition speed is 100fps, Threshold can be set to 80 and replacement to 30. Then, the header of the resulting video contains the value of 30fps replay speed and replays in slow motion (30/100).

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(36 replies, posted in General)

Hi Inorkuo,
I already did a lot of performance analysis of the new version. Depending on the CPU-type the load is different. More Cores and threads decrease the loading a lot. I just work on an load/Bandwidth overview of different processors/camera settings and will publish it the next time. In short CPU/Load (delayed mode) for 1 Camera/1Kinovea:
Pentium Core2: 45%, i5-9600k: 25-35%, i9-9900: 12%

If Kinovea is in delayed mode (for us golfers a must have), it is quasi under full load. If record is pressed, the load will NOT increase any more, it stays at the same level. If in camera mode, the load goes down to below 5%, but if record is pressed, it goes up to the same level as in the delayed mode. Therefore, it doesn't matter if delayed mode is used anyway.

Hi Joan,
Thanks for your comments. I could detect some problems with the WiFi. There were different drivers installed during WIN Update that I could remove.

Finally, I deactivated Windows Virus Scans.

Kinovea now starts faster. I saved 3 log-files that are called
log - changedXX.txt
The explanation of what has been done before each new startup is written in log - changed-info.txt

I would be happy if you could check them. I do not really understand the first item that represents the timing in each log-line and how to interpret them.
Thanks

Here is the link of the new (and old) log-files
https://hente-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/p … g?e=smdaLv

Hi Joan,
as I mention in another post, when starting Kinovea  Version 0.8.27 64-bit THE FIRST TIME after startup of the computer, it needs a very long period (> 10 sec) until it gets ready to work. If I close it and restart, it is much faster (1-2 sec.).

The corresponding log files (-long: first start, -short: second start) can be found at
https://hente-my.sharepoint.com/:f:/g/p … w?e=LEvHKx

Do you have any idea of what is going wrong with my computer?
System: Win 10 64bit, i5-9600,SSD,2 USB-Cameras, USB-C on board, 1 additional USB3.0 Controller with separate chipsets (360MB/s).

Thanks
Reiner

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(8 replies, posted in General)

Hi Joan,
thanks for the explantation. So I will wait for the next version and use 100fps at the present time.