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Kinovea - Forums → Posts by joan
I'll have a look at this. The way the videos are read has completely changed in 0.8.17 so verification that dual playback works is needed anyway. (that is what you refer to by head to head, right ?)
If you have more details (does it with only these videos or with all), how does the error manifests itself, is it a crash, freeze, something else, etc.
Log files would help a lot.
Yes, it is the problem.
Basically the camcorder (and all other that save to hard drive, DVD, or flash card) do not have streaming capability. The USB connection can only be used to transfer files.
The only workaround with this type of device is to use the analog outlet and an analog to digital converter at the PC end. (either HDMI or S-Video depending if the camcorder is HD or not)
You need to provide more details.
What doesn't work ? (capture, playback)
What happens when it doesn't work ? (error, black screen, something else)
What is the exact model ?
etc.
Very quickly not to disrupt the topic:
- Key images in Kinovea.
- Most simple drawings (like lines or angles) are "attached" to a specific key image.
- Tracks and stopwatches are not attached to any key image.
- Image sequence. No bearing to key images. Just to do automatic snapshot at regular intervals.
- Load key images data: this feature is already here so you can check for yourself. It opens a regular "Open file" dialog that let you pick any KVA file on your hard drive, and import on the current video.
- Format vs extension. Data representation (format) is XML. But the file extension is .kva to make it easier to associate the file with Kinovea. (Very common schema). Open the file in notepad to see how it looks.
- Observational references.
Thank for the comments !
This would leave only two options on the dialog, and this could actually be handled differently:
1 - There could be a simple "save" menu that would always save analysis to text file. (KVA). (KVA = Kinovea Analysis text files?) Do nothing if there is no key images or tracks, etc. ?Please clarify. It would be important for me to save KVA files with tracking information. Also more than one KVA file might be associated with a single video. I am unclear whether the KVA saves the tracks.
Yes. It would work like this:
- When you first open the video, the "save" menu is disabled.
- As soon as you add a key image, a stopwatch or a track, the "save" menu is enabled and let you save all these meta information.
- To be clear, if at some point you remove each and every analysis information, the save menu becomes disabled again. The "export to spreadsheet" sub menus follow the same principles.
The export menu would always be enabled to let you save the video as an image sequence or to save it slow motion even if you did not enrich it.
3) Future. Using Kinovea compare my practiced serve to the pro-serve regarding the timing of both pronation & internal shoulder rotation. No practice yet until I understand pronation timing. When I use Kinovea I would want to save more than one analysis for a given video especially for tracking different objects. There would be one video and sometimes several KVA files associated with that one video. Save new or modified KVA file for each work secession with a given video.
This is definitely possible. When you save a KVA file, you get to choose the file name.
- If you keep the suggested name that matches the video file name, this particular KVA file will be opened automatically when opening the video. (companion file).
- If you choose a different name, you will have to import it explicitely later, using "Load key images data" menu.
You can have several files associated with a particular video, each focusing on a specific aspect for example, and you can combine them all into the current video using the "load" menu repeatedly ("combining" is from 0.8.16 forward. Before, it did a "replace").
4) Finally, in the future communicate what I have using Kinovea videos with analysis tool results permanently in the video using the option discussed here.
Yes, and I feel this is more precisely conveyed by an "export" verb. Because once done, you won't be able to edit the analysis of the exported video.
edit:
Some caveats,
- Contrary to the current default option, the original file would not be backed up in any way, so it must be clear that it shouldn't be deleted.
Hopefully this will be clear since you will only be able to use .kva as format target. But the user still has to understand that this is not a video format, and that this file will only "work" when imported onto an existing video.
- Currently the observational references, (.svg and images), are not saved into the KVA.
(It is certainly technically possible though, as SVG is XML, and raster images could be stored either in CDATA tags or encoded in Base64.)
Returning to this topic.
I'm actually not too sure of the usefulness of the default option anymore. Discussion continues over here.
As of version 0.8.16, when you hit "save" you are presented with a dialog with mainly 3 options.
1 - "Save video with analysis modifiable" (default)
2 - "Save only the analysis"
3 - "Save video with analysis permanently applied on the video"
I was sort of proud of the technical achievement of the first option (An XML block is saved as a separate stream inside the video), and that may explain why I was blind to it being a usability problem.
I am considering removing this option altogether and revamping the dialog.
Some points:
A - It has always been a source of confusion. Partly because the concept itself is not commonly seen in other softwares, and partly because it is hard to explain. One has to have some understanding of multimedia files and the container/codec difference to grasp it.
B - I personally don't use it much. I feel safer to save the analysis to a separate text file anyway, and this avoids transcoding the video.
C - I think the original use case was to be able to send a single file over e-mail, rather than the video and the analysis separately. If it's all there is to it, it's not much.
D - It shouldn't be used for longer videos. The cost of transcoding the whole file outweights any hypothetical benefits that muxing the data inside it would have.
E - You should keep the original video around anyway for safety. So this render the point of reducing the number of files moot. Just keep the KVA instead of the enriched video and you end with same number of files.
I'm actually considering removing this option, or at least pushing it to some different dialog. Saving to a simple KVA file would become the new default.
This would leave only two options on the dialog, and this could actually be handled differently:
1 - There could be a simple "save" menu that would always save analysis to text file. (KVA). Do nothing if there is no key images or tracks, etc.
2 - And a separate "export" menu that would save the working zone back to a video. Now this menu could yield a dialog allowing for various kind of exports (diaporama, time freeze, maybe image sequence, etc.)
Oh, that could even be designed as a tabbed dialog for extensibility (youtube export, dual export with vertical/horzontal option, etc.)
related topics:
discussion about the first simplification between 0.8.15 and 0.8.16.
Recent issue with this function.
Your opinion is very much needed on this one.
Do you use this function ?
If you rely on this feature please describe your scenario.
If you have other ideas on how to organize the various saving options (including maybe the other export options like spreadsheet).
Thanks !
Thanks for the files.
For those interested:
The issue seems to be in the default saving option of embedding the KVA file inside the video file. The creation of the KVA stream inside the file worked but the rest of the transcoding failed. The result is an .mkv file that looks ok, but has no images.
This is at least two bugs here: failing to transcode and failing to report the failure.
If you have such a file (a very small .mkv file that won't open) do not loose all hope, the analysis data should be recoverable.
Thanks for all the logs. I'll have a look and see if I can understand what is happening.
The fact that it blue screens is another indication of a very low level exception, so probably not at application level (especially considering we run on top of the .NET framework), but I'll definitely look into this and learn how to make sense of it.
(Note: I have taken the .dmp file offline as I'm not too sure of what it may contains).
I am not able to play it too, can you send me your Email id where I can too send you my sample?
The mail is in the second message of this thread. Also, be sure to try with 0.8.16 version.
Note that you triggered my spam radar with the unrelated commercial link in your sig, please confirm.
Thanks
The log is pretty terse… there is less than 1 second between opening the screens and the end of the log, with no sign of the issue.
To know if the conflict really is at driver level, you could open one camera in a third party application, and then open Kinovea. If you have the same issue it would point to a driver limitation. (Which still must be handled gracefully, which is not currently the case apparently)
Is there an error dialog window when it crashes ? Does it have more information in it ?
Thanks for the report.
related thread.
Please enable debug logging (check the pinned thread for how to), or download 0.8.16, which has debug logging by default and also has an updated capture screen, (so it would be interesting to know the behavior in any case).
Having the log would be interesting on its own to assess the feasibility of a "Camera Alias" feature. The idea would be to allow the user to give a descriptive name to a camera source and list the camera by this alias instead of the driver name.
That would be very handy in a multi camera setup, and really helpful with two cameras of the same model like you. The log will help understand if cameras can be uniquely identified.
I created the bug 259 to track this issue. Please attach the logs there.
What was the version with which it worked ?
What is the version with which it doesn't work ?
(0.8.7, 0.8.15 and 0.8.16 have 3 different versions of the decoding backend).
Do you mean you saved them with Kinovea and now you can't read them ?
Can you send me a small sample file exposing the problem ?
(joan at kinovea dot org)
Je ne sais pas si ça va marcher mais en tout cas ce ne sera pas en HD. Ça va passer le signal HD numérique en analogique et en définition standard puis le reconvertir en numérique à l'entrée du PC. (après je sais pas où ce sera visible dans le PC… pilote DirectShow ?)
Il y a une personne sur la partie anglophone du forum qui utilise un boîtier de conversion HDMI « Intensity Pro from Black Magic » mais je n'ai absolument aucune expérience là dessus donc je ne peux rien conseiller personellement.
Fix Frame rate, all our footage is 120 fps so changing it for every video is a bit of pain.
In my opinion this is a very specialized need… What might work would be to have some sort of "Advanced" panel on the preference dialog. I think it is similar to the case of always forcing an aspect ratio to bypass the autodetect, or to always forcing deinterlace. They would be grouped there. What do you think?
A Ruler tool: use object in image for scale? keep for the video?
The basic ruler tool is the line tool with measure enabled. Then all other lines can be turned into rulers.
Another option would be to create an observational reference with nice graduations.
The third option will be to implement rulers integrated on the screen's borders.
Have an issue with text to stills when writing on screen then taking a snap shot or series the text is retained from previous still (as its a video commentary? IS it possible to take a still and then annotate?
What you can do to have the text visible only on the frame it was added is to disable persistence. You can do that individually through the right-click menu of the label, or you can set this for all drawings in the preference dialog, at Drawings > Persistence.
Is it possible to retrospectively add an audio track? As we are filming at 120fps a 10 second clip is a minute when slowed so plenty of time to do voice over?
Not possible in Kinovea. You'll have to reimport the video in another software to do voice over…
The policy is that Kinovea must be able to completely support the files it creates, so this voice over feature cannot be added until audio is supported in the input video.
Would it be possible to have a branded and licenced version with some custom tools added? And quite a few removed?
Not sure what you mean exactly by licensed. The license covering Kinovea is open source with a strong copyleft. Means that when you redistribute Kinovea or any derivative work, you must do so under the exact same license (the GPLv2), and confer the same rights to your users than those you got from it (including access to source code).
In a few month from now I might be available for hire to do this type of custom changes/enhancements, but not right now. (Not too sure about rebranding though).
The general motion with tools is to decouple them from the core, so that it's easier to add/remove them. The hardest part is done, they are already almost detachable.
Kinovea - Forums → Posts by joan