1 (edited by joan 2012-Sep-30 20:07:41)

Topic: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Experimental version feedback needed ! wink
Beware of regressions and report anything suspicious. Do not assume the issue is known.

Installer: [s]Kinovea.Setup.0.8.18.exe[/s] Too late! Go check 0.8.19 instead.


New tools
This version is all about new tools. Here is a quick glance at the new tool bar:

http://www.kinovea.org/screencaps/0.8.x/toolbar.0.8.18.png

To access the extra tools on a button, you simply do a long click on the button. (Similar to Adobe Photoshop and other softwares).
The arrow tool has been separated from the line tool for easier access.
Here is a quick summary of the new tools.

http://www.kinovea.org/screencaps/0.8.x/newtools.0.8.18.png

- Auto numbers: to add numbered items. Each time you use it, the number increments.
- Goniometer: lets you measure an angle relatively to a reference angle of 0°, 45°, 90°, etc.
- Posture: lets you check alignments of the body for various sports. The vertical side lines move symmetrically relatively to the center line, the head circle moves up and down, the shoulder line is free, etc.
- Bike fit: for bike fit.
- Profile: to quickly sketch alignments.
- Genu: to quickly sketch the general posture of the lower body. Should be useful for podiatrists. (The name comes from genu flexum, genu recurvatum, etc.)
- Archery top view: as the name implies this one is tailored for archery. the dashed line corresponds to the shoulder line as seen from above.
- Spotlight: puts the focus on an area, dim the rest. See in action.

SHIFT modifier
The shift modifier can be used to constraint how the handles moves. For many tools this will constraint a line to be rotated by 45° jumps relatively to its parent line.
For the pencil tool, it will draw horizontal or vertical lines. For the grid tool, it will constraint to a square.

But wait, there's more
All the tools under the goniometer menu are dynamically loaded from XML description files. This is the core innovation of this version. A generic system to describe, parse and render interactive tools.

The idea in the back of my head here is that in addition to the built-in tools, you'd be able to design your own tools, perfectly tailored to your sport or exercise. This has always been a pet peeve of mine, with the Observational Reference system also in this vein, but here I think it'll be more practical.

Currently it's somewhat crude, you have to create an XML file manually describing the tool and how it behaves. But it's doable (if you know the format).
I'll later write a tutorial on how to create your own tool. And maybe if there's enough demand, I think it'd be possible to have an WYSIWYG editor to create interactive tools.
In the meantime, you can play, copy and alter the files under the "DrawingTools" directory of the installation path. The files in this directory will be automatically loaded in the interface.

If you have a request for a specific tool that you think can be implemented under this system, don't hesitate to post the request on the forum. It'll be an opportunity to show how to do it and hopefully as many users as possible become knowledgeable in this part of the program and can help others and report new ideas to make it even more powerful.

And more
On top of this, please welcome the Czech locale and the Korean locale ! Woohoo, thanks to  Ji?í Rosický and Rak Joon Sung!


Go grab it ! smile

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Nice one! I'm working with Kinovea every day, analyzing cycling and running biomechanics. The new bike fit feature is almost perfect but it lacks the foot angle.
A few points in comparisson to former versions:
- all angle measurements are inverted
- grid shortcut isn't working anymore

From my point of view the ability to cutomize shortcuts for all tools would be a superb feature that would really speed up the workflow.
Another feature I'd love to have in a future version is the ability to rotate the video 90°. This would be extremly helpful for running style analysis, especially with 16:9 camcorders, which then could be tilted 90° to fill the picture with a runner.

Thank you guys for the great work! I'll definitely make a donation ;-)

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Thanks for the fast feed back !
I'll have a look into the regression on angles as soon as possible.
The grid was previously accessible from the main menu and the shortcut was actually defined on the menu. The menu has been removed so there's no shortcut anymore. I'll definitely look into a more general system to map shortcuts to tools.

And thanks for the support !

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Outstanding!  The bike fit addition is great and saves me a lot of time.  Previously, I had to make 4 different angle measurements and try to line them all up, without moving the wrong one.

I do agree with Dr. Kane that the addition of foot angle display would be extremely valuable.  I coach all my cycling clients on reducing heel rise, so this is a number I could really use displayed.  It is easy enough to add one more angle measurement under the foot, though.

Thank you for the excellent addition.  I also have to say I am thankful for your robust video format compatibility.  It took me an hour to figure out which AVI codec SkillSpector requires.

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Great tool

Unfortunately video synchronize video doesn't work well sad
I would love to see what was in v15 or 14 that you can play two videos with different speed
anyway thanks for all the hard work

Regards
wermouth

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

wermouth wrote:

Unfortunately video synchronize video doesn't work well sad

Could you elaborate on what doesn't work well ?

wermouth wrote:

I would love to see what was in v15 or 14 that you can play two videos with different speed

Are you comparing a high speed camera video with a normal one or is it another scenario ?

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

About the new spotlight tool, is there a way to make it always visible instead of fading out after 1 second?
Is there a way to copy the spotlight or to copy the radius or dimensions of the spotlight to another spotlight?

I know you're woking on a way to track an object and attach the spotlight to it, that would the ultimate feature.

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Yes, spotlight is trackable in the next version (as well as angles, lines, markers, the magnifier, and also the new custom tools).
(I'm currently looking for small bug fixes or mini features to pack in).

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

You are amazing, Joan smile!

10 (edited by wermouth 2012-Sep-12 13:47:40)

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Joan

joan wrote:
wermouth wrote:

Unfortunately video synchronize video doesn't work well sad

Could you elaborate on what doesn't work well ?

wermouth wrote:

I would love to see what was in v15 or 14 that you can play two videos with different speed

Are you comparing a high speed camera video with a normal one or is it another scenario ?

It seams to me that most of video formats works great however in MOV format seams to cut during playback only in two playback screen mode.

In regards to playback speed, I was talking about Kinovea version where you could set the speed of video playback separately in two playback screen mode, then you could play let say in one screen 80% and other 100% and you had third button on the bottom of the program to Vary playback speed for both screens at the same time.

Any way.
Kinovea is a great software!!!
I have Dartfish, Quintic sport, I have also tried Motion Analysis, Motion view software, and I have to say that I do prefer Kinovea over Quintic Sport, Motion analysis and Motion view.

Kinovea to me has more then enough tools and I love it,
Slow motion!!!
Two screen playback
Line where you can calibrate distance!!!
Angle
Stopwatch
Magnifier

I'll Definitely make donation

Kind regards
wermouth

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

wermouth wrote:

In regards to playback speed, I was talking about Kinovea version where you could set the speed of video playback separately in two playback screen mode, then you could play let say in one screen 80% and other 100% and you had third button on the bottom of the program to Vary playback speed for both screens at the same time.

Yes. I think this change was because when playing two videos to compare them, one would prefer that the speeds of actions change in sync, otherwise you can't really compare the actions.

Playing two videos at different speed is a strange scenario… unless one of the video in already in slow motion and not the other, but for that specific scenario the sliders use the adjusted speed, so both actions run at the same percentage of "real world" speed, even if one video is in slow motion to begin with. (Also, difference of framerate in the videos is already accounted for).

If you have a different scenario where you want to play the videos at different speed, or if it's one of the scenario I mentionned but it doesn't work as expected, I'd like to understand more smile

For the next version I did add a checkbox in the settings, to disable the synching of the speed sliders globally.
However, as you say, it was certainly more convenient when you could alternate between the two behaviors directly in the interface. Maybe the checkbox could be in the common controls bar instead. But for now I still think it's not a very common scenario.

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

Fantastic work Joan,
I'm only an occasional user but the new tools will make things so much better.
If I may, the only observation I have is that with profile tool and genu tool you can't stretch the limb lengths like you can on the bike fit for instance.
Looking forward to having a proper play with this later.
Many thanks
Jon

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

jonh wrote:

If I may, the only observation I have is that with profile tool and genu tool you can't stretch the limb lengths like you can on the bike fit for instance.

Yes, this was on purpose… The goal of these two tools was to be able to quickly add a reference posture on the side of the image.

The typical use case is for example a podiatrist, to quickly overlay a "genu flexum" shape with the knees bending inwards, and keep it along the video for reference. In this regards the shape is simpler if it doesn't stretch.

Since the new tools are described in XML, the possibilities are endless, so I tried to have a range of examples with various applications.

Creating the same tools with stretchable limbs is quite easy. I'll try to finish the tutorial on how to go about creating a simple tool.

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

joan wrote:

[quote=jonh
Creating the same tools with stretchable limbs is quite easy. I'll try to finish the tutorial on how to go about creating a simple tool.

A tutorial on creating & editing tools would be fantastic. I have a few ideas for new tools but they are specific to my needs & doubt anyone else would be interested. Look forward to it. smile

Re: Experimental version - 0.8.18

jonh wrote:
joan wrote:

Creating the same tools with stretchable limbs is quite easy. I'll try to finish the tutorial on how to go about creating a simple tool.

A tutorial on creating & editing tools would be fantastic. I have a few ideas for new tools but they are specific to my needs & doubt anyone else would be interested. Look forward to it. smile

Yes absolutely. I have a draft lying around, I'll publish it sometime this week.