1,126 Topic by joan

(4 replies, posted in Ideas and feature requests)

As of version 0.8.16, when you hit "save" you are presented with a dialog with mainly 3 options.
1 - "Save video with analysis modifiable" (default)
2 - "Save only the analysis"
3 - "Save video with analysis permanently applied on the video"


I was sort of proud of the technical achievement of the first option (An XML block is saved as a separate stream inside the video), and that may explain why I was blind to it being a usability problem.
I am considering removing this option altogether and revamping the dialog.


Some points:
A - It has always been a source of confusion. Partly because the concept itself is not commonly seen in other softwares, and partly because it is hard to explain. One has to have some understanding of multimedia files and the container/codec difference to grasp it.
B - I personally don't use it much. I feel safer to save the analysis to a separate text file anyway, and this avoids transcoding the video.
C - I think the original use case was to be able to send a single file over e-mail, rather than the video and the analysis separately. If it's all there is to it, it's not much.
D - It shouldn't be used for longer videos. The cost of transcoding the whole file outweights any hypothetical benefits that muxing the data inside it would have.
E - You should keep the original video around anyway for safety. So this render the point of reducing the number of files moot. Just keep the KVA instead of the enriched video and you end with same number of files.

I'm actually considering removing this option, or at least pushing it to some different dialog. Saving to a simple KVA file would become the new default.

This would leave only two options on the dialog, and this could actually be handled differently:
1 - There could be a simple "save" menu that would always save analysis to text file. (KVA). Do nothing if there is no key images or tracks, etc.
2 - And a separate "export" menu that would save the working zone back to a video. Now this menu could yield a dialog allowing for various kind of exports (diaporama, time freeze, maybe image sequence, etc.)
Oh, that could even be designed as a tabbed dialog for extensibility (youtube export, dual export with vertical/horzontal option, etc.)

related topics:
discussion about the first simplification between 0.8.15 and 0.8.16.
Recent issue with this function.


Your opinion is very much needed on this one.
Do you use this function ?
If you rely on this feature please describe your scenario.

If you have other ideas on how to organize the various saving options (including maybe the other export options like spreadsheet).

Thanks !
big_smile

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1,127 Reply by joan

(7 replies, posted in Bug reports)

Thanks for the files.

For those interested:
The issue seems to be in the default saving option of embedding the KVA file inside the video file. The creation of the KVA stream inside the file worked but the rest of the transcoding failed. The result is an .mkv file that looks ok, but has no images.

This is at least two bugs here: failing to transcode and failing to report the failure.

If you have such a file (a very small .mkv file that won't open) do not loose all hope, the analysis data should be recoverable.

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1,128 Reply by joan

(5 replies, posted in Bug reports)

Thanks for all the logs. I'll have a look and see if I can understand what is happening.
The fact that it blue screens is another indication of a very low level exception, so probably not at application level (especially considering we run on top of the .NET framework), but I'll definitely look into this and learn how to make sense of it.
(Note: I have taken the .dmp file offline as I'm not too sure of what it may contains).

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1,129 Reply by joan

(4 replies, posted in Bug reports)

ZickGiven wrote:

I am not able to play it too, can you send me your Email id where I can too send you my sample?

The mail is in the second message of this thread. Also, be sure to try with 0.8.16 version.
Note that you triggered my spam radar with the unrelated commercial link in your sig, please confirm.

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1,130 Reply by joan

(5 replies, posted in Bug reports)

Thanks
The log is pretty terse… there is less than 1 second between opening the screens and the end of the log, with no sign of the issue.

To know if the conflict really is at driver level, you could open one camera in a third party application, and then open Kinovea. If you have the same issue it would point to a driver limitation. (Which still must be handled gracefully, which is not currently the case apparently)

Is there an error dialog window when it crashes ? Does it have more information in it ?

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1,131 Reply by joan

(5 replies, posted in Bug reports)

Thanks for the report.
related thread.

Please enable debug logging (check the pinned thread for how to), or download 0.8.16, which has debug logging by default and also has an updated capture screen, (so it would be interesting to know the behavior in any case).


Having the log would be interesting on its own to assess the feasibility of a "Camera Alias" feature. The idea would be to allow the user to give a descriptive name to a camera source and list the camera by this alias instead of the driver name.
That would be very handy in a multi camera setup, and really helpful with two cameras of the same model like you. The log will help understand if cameras can be uniquely identified.

I created the bug 259 to track this issue. Please attach the logs there.

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1,132 Reply by joan

(7 replies, posted in Bug reports)

What was the version with which it worked ?
What is the version with which it doesn't work ?
(0.8.7, 0.8.15 and 0.8.16 have 3 different versions of the decoding backend).

Do you mean you saved them with Kinovea and now you can't read them ?

Can you send me a small sample file exposing the problem ?
(joan at kinovea dot org)

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1,133 Reply by joan

(2 replies, posted in Français)

Je ne sais pas si ça va marcher mais en tout cas ce ne sera pas en HD. Ça va passer le signal HD numérique en analogique et en définition standard puis le reconvertir en numérique à l'entrée du PC. (après je sais pas où ce sera visible dans le PC… pilote DirectShow ?)

Il y a une personne sur la partie anglophone du forum qui utilise un boîtier de conversion HDMI « Intensity Pro from Black Magic » mais je n'ai absolument aucune expérience là dessus donc je ne peux rien conseiller personellement.

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1,134 Reply by joan

(10 replies, posted in Ideas and feature requests)

HDAV wrote:

Fix Frame rate, all our footage is 120 fps so changing it for every video is a bit of pain.

In my opinion this is a very specialized need… What might work would be to have some sort of "Advanced" panel on the preference dialog. I think it is similar to the case of always forcing an aspect ratio to bypass the autodetect, or to always forcing deinterlace. They would be grouped there. What do you think?

HDAV wrote:

A Ruler tool: use object in image for scale? keep for the video?

The basic ruler tool is the line tool with measure enabled. Then all other lines can be turned into rulers.
Another option would be to create an observational reference with nice graduations.
The third option will be to implement rulers integrated on the screen's borders.

HDAV wrote:

Have an issue with text to stills when writing on screen then taking a snap shot or series the text is retained from previous still (as its a video commentary? IS it possible to take a still and then annotate?

What you can do to have the text visible only on the frame it was added is to disable persistence. You can do that individually through the right-click menu of the label, or you can set this for all drawings in the preference dialog, at Drawings > Persistence.

HDAV wrote:

Is it possible to retrospectively add an audio track? As we are filming at 120fps a 10 second clip is a minute when slowed so plenty of time to do voice over?

Not possible in Kinovea. You'll have to reimport the video in another software to do voice over…
The policy is that Kinovea must be able to completely support the files it creates, so this voice over feature cannot be added until audio is supported in the input video.

HDAV wrote:

Would it be possible to have a branded and licenced version  with some custom tools added? And quite a few removed?

Not sure what you mean exactly by licensed. The license covering Kinovea is open source with a strong copyleft. Means that when you redistribute Kinovea or any derivative work, you must do so under the exact same license (the GPLv2), and confer the same rights to your users than those you got from it (including access to source code).
In a few month from now I might be available for hire to do this type of custom changes/enhancements, but not right now. (Not too sure about rebranding though).

The general motion with tools is to decouple them from the core, so that it's easier to add/remove them. The hardest part is done, they are already almost detachable.

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1,135 Topic by joan

(1 replies, posted in Ideas and feature requests)

18 new observational references have just been contributed, thanks !

Most of them represent team sport fields, but also archery targets and tennis court.
These type of references open a new perspective: using them as coach boards or for some kind of notational analysis.

I can definitely see the need for opening them in their own screen.
It would also be interesting to have it turned into a video so you can have several sets of positions/annotations, maybe synchronize with the actual video, etc.
(Combine this with dual export and you have a play sequence on the left, and the corresponding step by step diagram on the right, nice smile)

One way to go about this would be:
1 - Support .svg in the explorer and allow opening directly in a player screen. (currently only for .bmp, .jpg, .png)
2 - When opening an image file (any supported type), ask the user if he/she wants to turn it into a video. Ask for duration and frame rate.

Other options ?
Other settings for creating the video ? (background color, image size…)

Having .svg thumbnails in the explorer would be interesting since currently I don't think there is a shell plugin that does it. There was one (proprietary) for Win XP but it has been discontinued.

Note: this is for mid-term/long term. Don't expect to see this in the next experimental version, but some parts of it may be added on the go.

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1,136 Reply by joan

(1 replies, posted in Bug reports)

If I understand correctly you have used the "High speed camera" option on the 30/30 video, and set it to 120.

Typically you would use this option the other way around, on the 120fps video. The option is just to correctly map the timecode on real time action. It has no effect on the play back speed.

I don't think you will be able to run both videos at the same real time "pace" (slowing down the normal one 4 times but not the other). That was possible in some earlier version but the slow motion sliders have also been locked since.
(Second time this comes up. Need a key modifier for independent action on the active screen…)
To move left/right a single video you can use the set of control buttons under each video. (But yes, keyboard shortcuts will act on both)

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1,137 Reply by joan

(13 replies, posted in General)

That is what I meant by

In a later installment, we will have to reconfigure the screen's control dynamically to get the best screen estate possible.

I was thinking the following:
Player screen:
- keeping the tools bar and the key image panel (the key image panel can be collapsed manually already)
- condensing the other controls on a single line. The playback buttons going right to the slow motion control, then the navigation bar, then the save buttons.

Capture screen:
- keeping the tools bar and recently recorded files panel. (the panel can be collapsed manually)
- condensing the rest on a single line. The next image and next video boxes going right to the delay control.

The advantage of this is it keeps the screens entirely functional while improving screen estate a lot. Seems like a good compromise.
However it might be easier (coding wise) to go with just the image. So feedback is important here smile

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1,138 Reply by joan

(2 replies, posted in Bug reports)

Bump.
Bug 253 is a similar issue but a different exception…
I'm looking for a log (at DEBUG verbose level) of this problem. (still can't reproduce)

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1,139 Topic by joan

(0 replies, posted in Français)

Version particulièrement expérimentale wink Merci de remonter toutes les regressions !

Installeur: [s]Kinovea.Setup.0.8.16.exe[/s]0.8.17

Le topic annonce sur le forum anglais.

Je recherche un contributeur qui pourrait traduire de l'Anglais vers le Français ces messages d'annonces de versions, posts sur le blog et autres !

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1,140 Topic by joan

(16 replies, posted in General)

Very experimental, much feedback needed ! wink
Beware of regressions and report anything suspicious. Do not assume the issue is known.

Installer: [s]Kinovea.Setup.0.8.16.exe[/s]. 0.8.17

The drawings code was refactored to ease the addition and creation of new drawings in the future. The amount of work that went into the refactoring is quite substantial but the level of flexibility is starting to be interesting.
Although it's not an explicit goal, we are not too far from a plug-in system where a third party could provide a sport-specific tool and it would be integrated dynamically. (It's not a goal right now, but thinking about this level of flexibility helps with the design)

Visible changes (tip of the iceberg, really)
- The grid and plane are now first class drawings: you can add as many of them as you want, and they will also be saved and loaded in the KVA files.
- Option to display "time ticks" on track path.
- Importing a KVA file now *merges* it on top of the existing key images (before it would do a "replace").
- New conf boxes for color and style.

Impacted areas (test, test, test for regressions)
1. KVA file format. The format has changed in some incompatible ways. I wrote a conversion routine so existing KVA (and embedded analysis) should be OK, but the color/style information will be lost. Please report any issue.
2. Export to spreadsheet.
3. File reading (FFMpeg updated).
4. Language selection.

On top of that:
- Full screen mode (discuss). (There is no menu to get out yet, use F11 shortcut key!)
- Support for WebM file format.


Otherwise exterminated bugs : 209, 245, 247, 248, 250, 255.
(250 = captured file is playing too fast).

+ Raw changelog.

Some snaps of the conf boxes.
http://www.kinovea.org/screencaps/0.8.x/trackshapes.png
^^ Track shape
http://www.kinovea.org/screencaps/0.8.x/confline.pnghttp://www.kinovea.org/screencaps/0.8.x/confpreset.png

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