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Kinovea - Forums → Posts by Reiner
Hi Joan,
using 2 IDS UI3140CP at the same time, the camera entries appear in the list after about 1-2 seconds, further 2 seconds until the camera-pictograms are shown. It is reproducible closing and starting Kinovea multiple times.
There is about no delay between the first and the second IDS-camera, they appear just one after the other.
Log-file did not show any problems.
System: i9-9900, every camera has a separate dedicated USB-port (2 channel extension-card). It seems to be driver-related.
Some comment on Transfer-rate of USB. The maximum transfer speed of USB 3.0 (USB 3.1 Gen1; USB 3.2 Gen1) is 625Mb/s (5GBit/s). This is the absolut maximum. If you use MP4, conversion to MP4 (Basler uses AVI) has to be done by the system. So dropping of frames often will occur. So use uncompressed Video to get the maximum out of your system. To my experience, also an i9/9900 is not fast enough to compress the video without dropping frames.
If you use the full resolution of your camera, you might be over the limit due to some overhead that is needed by the system. Selecting Mono will reduce the transferrate to 1/3 and may help.
Below some examples of the relation of resolution/fps and resulting transfer rate. To my experience it is save if you remain significantly below 450-500 Mb/s
Mb/s
Width Height FPS Mono Color
1024 1024 100 105 315
1024 1024 200 210 629
1024 1024 300 315 944
1920 1024 100 197 590
1920 1024 150 295 885
1440 1024 100 147 442
1440 1024 200 295 885
Maybe I misunderstand the problem. But the easiest was is to load 2 Kinovea side by side on the desktop.
The first Kinovea deliveres the "Life" Video and the second Kinovea uses observermode to replay.
That doesn't sound good. However, I have version 0.9.3 running since release and never have had a crash. My default setup is having 6 Kinovea open at the same time without any problem.
To narrow the problem some infos would be interesting:
Are any other programs also crashing
Do the camera-drivers, if are installed, have the right version that is compatible with Kinovea 0.9.3. There are a lot of error messages related to the IDS-camera. IDS-software suite Version 4.93 will work. If you have the Basler pylon software installed, be sure to have 6.0 (not 6.1 !)
Try to deactivate all virus programs. To be save, you could disconnect the internet during testing.
However, what I have personally seen is, that once this type of error occurs, it definitively is time to reinstall Windows from scratch. Expecially if the windows version is updated from an older version (i.e. Windows 8), I have found similar problems. Another reason I have seen are some "tools" - installation (these nice small programs we all like 
) that replace important Windows-DLLs.
Since longer time, I always reinstall the system on a clean partition if windows shows a strange behavior.
Futhermore, if the computer is running for some years, remove and reassemble the memory-chips after running a memory-checking program to secure that the chips are in good conditions. Also disconnect and reconnect the graphics card to the motherboard slot.
Good luck
Yes, the price for Europe is about 205 Euro. However, be aware of a handling fee of about 50 Euro.
Furthermore, this price is EXCLUSIVE VAT.
You will get a camera at a similar price in Europe, i.e. from Basler:
224fps, 1/3" sensor
Monochrome:
https://www.baslerweb.com/de/produkte/k … 440-220um/
Color:
https://www.baslerweb.com/en/products/c … 440-220uc/
Hi,
I love Kinovea, such a great piece of software. I use it especially for delayed video playback and recording for instant video feedback in martial arts tricking.
So far the newest beta version ist stable in my use case. Sometimes when I set the video to 5sec delay, its rather the double of it and sometimes its 5sec. I'm looking for more testing on my side.A simple bug in this version (hopefully not only for me) is, that when I open a video in the playback screen and double klick on the video so that it fits the screen, the playback stutters too much. Then it seems like a 10fps video. When I double click on the video again, its nicely smooth (1080p 60fps). It stutters on 720p 25fps video too.
My machine is a surface pro 7 with i7 processor and 16gb of ram. In the options the memory is set to approx 5gb each for video playback an recording. Display framerate is set to 60.I hope I could help you for some bug reporting and hope you could solve this issue in the next version.
Thank you
Hi,
it sounds like a performance topic.
Did you set the display framerate to 60 in windows or Kinovea? If in Kinovea, I would reduce it to 25 or 30. Your eyes will not recognize a higher framerate.
Your graphic card is integrated into your cpu. So everything is shared and may interfere. If there is too less memory available, the system has to store the memory on a file that may things slow down significantly.
You don't need 5GB for each video. If you look on the size of your created video, you can estimate how much GB you need. I is related to the length of recording, not the delay.
If you acquire your video in color, try to reduce it to mono. It will reduce all loads to 1/3.
Start the task-manager and observe cpu-load and especially the amount of reserved memory to be over 100%. Click on "resource monitor" to find the individual values of cpu and memory.
You may use a "standard", cheap microphone. Use an extension cable to position the microphone near your impact area.
If it is as close as possible to the golf ball, you can lower the trigger threshold to exclude undesirable trigger actions due to background noise. I have it clipped to my launch monitor, about 25cm from impact area.
As far as I know you don't need any driver for USB2-cameras. Can you change the setting of the 20fps-camera if you click on camera options? There should some options of different resolution/fps - combinations to be selected.
It rather sounds like a bottleneck in your system.
I would go step by step to evaluate it.
- Use only 1 camera with your recording parameters. 1,5 seconds delay and 2,5 seconds recording time fits perfectly to grab a golf swing.
- Set the recording mode to „retroactive“. Kinovea then grabs the video into memory and writes it to disk AFTER recording. So you can eliminate slow disk speed.
- During recording, look on the amount of dropped frames DURING recording. Simply click on the red button to get your video.
- If dropping occurs , try to use uncompressed formats like MKV or AVI, reduce the video size or reduce the framerate, if your camera supports it. I don’t know the options you have with your camera. Lowering size and fps will reduce load and dropping. Your camera still is monochrome, so the amount of data to be transferred is still low than using a color camera.
- Check your CPU-load to see, if your system (processor and chipset) is capable of transferring the data to the system. To my knowledge, direct measuring the USB-load is somehow difficult. At this stage, try to avoid any elongation cable to connect the camera. Plug it in directly.?Basler has a tool to measure the maximal bandwidth, but you have to connect a Basler camera. By the way, they have a new camera line released this year at about 290 Euro that is very interesting.
- Once you get a stable run with 1 Camera, you could add the second camera. The best option is to have a second USB-Port on your system. However, a lot of systems have more than one USB-connectors, but NOT a real second independent port. It depends on your Chipset of your motherboard. if you have 1 USB2 and 1 USB3, connect each camera to one of these ports. Be sure not to have other demanding devices connected parallel on this ports.
- If you have connected the second camera (related to a separate Instance of Kinovea), check your CPU-Load again. On a motherboard having one of the newest Chipset Z390 with 2 independent USB-Ports (1 USB2, 1USB3.1), using an Intel i5/9600K one instance uses about 35% of CPU-Load during delayed recording. Upgrading to an i9/9900 it decreases to about 15-20% of CPU-load.
Hope that helps.
Exactly that's the way to go.
I'm using 1,5 second delay and 2,5 second recording time and the swing fits perfectly.
using high speed cameras, it may be favorable to use 1 Kinovea for each camera, if more than 1 camera is connected.
Furthermore, uncompressed video should be selected (MKV or AVI). otherwise, the conversion process during high speed recording may result in a high frame dropping rate.
Having a fast SSD, independent from the system drive, to save the video file may be an advantage. Windows itself unexpectedly writes to the system drive that may interfere.
To make it more versatile and adaptable I use the following:
Create a batch file using a text-editor (i.e. Notepad) at a location you can reach easily, i.e.
d:\KinoveaStart.bat
This file contains one line of text:
"FullPath2Kinovea" -name %1
I exclusively use Kinovea from the ZIP-File, storing it in a directory that easily can be found.
So in my case the line contains:
"d:\kinovea093\kinovea.exe" -name %1
If you use the exe-installation of Kinovea, you would have to replace <FullPath2Kinovea> by the path Kinovea is stored.
It is important to use the quotation marks if the path contains a space character.
Now you can create a Link on the desktop to start Kinovea with a specific -name convention
To start Kinovea i.e. with -name "Front", in the link-dialog fill out the field "target" with the following
D:\KinoveaStart.bat Front
To start a second, independent Kinovea with -name "DL", create a second link with
D:\KinoveaStart.bat DL
Do NO
Sounds good. 4x150W will blow you away...
Can you tell us the shutter speed you are using?
To really see the details without blurring, a relative short shutter-time is necessary (<=500 MICROseconds).
sounds interesting. It is hard to imagine to have a 100W LED light at that price.
An appropriate quality LED-light of 50W, having a flicker-index of 0,01 I didn't found below 90 Euro. At 200fps you still can see some flickering. At 100fps it is OK.
Absolutely flicker free is the Aputure Amaran HR672S, 25°, about 4600 Lumen, but it costs about 250 Euro.
It would be interesting to know, at which fps-rate and shutter-speed you test these lights.
A simple test would be to use the handy in slow motion recording mode. Most (at least the iPhone) have a slow motion record at 120fps and 240fps to make a quick check.
Hi,
some infos may help:
Issues 1:
Blurring is related to the shutter speed, not the frame rate. Unfortunately, controlling the shutter speed may be difficult in USB2-cameras. Maybe, setting a fixed framerate AND shutter speed in the firmware may help. However, I haven't seen a program that may modify the firmware of the OV2710 cameras
Issues 2:
You may try even to use 4 instances of Kinovea if 2 cameras are in use. 1 instance for each camera, 1 instance for each replay. I found, that this helps in synchronizing multiple videos.
If 1 video plays "faster", mostly it is due to dropped frames during recording that may have several reasons:
1. if more than 1 camera is connected to the same USB-port, they may interfere (bandwidth too low)
2. one instance of recording Kinovea needs about 35% CPU-Load if an i5/9600k processor is used. Using a slower processor, two instances may increase the CPU-Load over 100%, if windows background-processes are running. Check the CPU-load in the task-manager to be in a "safe" area. I found interferences if the total CPU-load goes > 80% (Probably due to some background-processes, especially if windows internally writes to the SSD).
3. Try to use a different SSD to store the videos
Issue 3:
if 1 kinovea instance is used for each replay, looking on different (!) directories, it works pretty stable to me.
Hi Joan,
did a lot of testing. It really is a concern if going > 100fps.
At 100fps, flickering is not a problem as far as I have seen. Also if "standard" lighting/LEDs are used.
Interestingly, NOT special LEDs are rather worth compared to regular lighting due to the fast reaction in relation to the changing current.
If LED light is selected, the flicker-index should be below 0,05 (or lower !). But also using these lights, some flickering is visible at fps above 150 fps.
The reduced flickering at 100fps cannot be found any more if fps is > 150fps. At 200fps, there seems to be now beneficial effect.
Of course, it heavily depends on the shutter speed. If shutter speed is below 1000 microseconds, flickering becomes evident. Furthermore, under not professional conditions (as my Garage - SIM ) if Color video is used, the image quality becomes worth. So I actually exclusively use MONO8 to speed up data transfer and to get the most light to the video.
One camera I use is an IDS 3140 at about 1200x500 pixels using 300fps (Mono of course). shutter speed 200 - 500 microseconds. It comes from the top and is focussed on the golf ball at an object frame of about 1x0,5m. To reduce the flickering I use an AMARAN Spot-LED that is ABSOLUTELY flicker-free. That works pretty good.
A further, rather simple effect I have seen is, that it is important, not to have reflecting objects (also the ground can be reflecting). That increases visible flickering.
A further test I made is to use three-phase current that I furtunately have at my Golf-simulator-room. There are 3 LEDs connected to each phase with the idea, to reduce flickering. However, at 200fps there still is some flickering also when using LEDs having a flicker-index below 0,01.
Kinovea - Forums → Posts by Reiner